In business and in life, “bleep” happens. Michael and Brad are joined by the dynamic duo, Jay and Mara Shorr of Shorr Solutions as they share their story of mixing business with family and how this affected the way they help their clients. In the second part of the episode, Michael and Brad discuss the 4 C’s of business planning: Cost, Compensation, Control and Contingencies.
To learn more about Shorr Solutions Visit https://shorrsolutions.com/. Listen to Shorr Solutions: The Podcast at https://shorrsolutions.com/shorr-solutions-the-podcast/.
Listen to the full episode using the player below, or by visiting one of the links below. Below is the episode’s transcript which has been edited for readability. If you have any questions or would like to learn more, email us at info@byrdadatto.com.
Transcript
Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. Legal issues simplified through real client stories and real world experiences. Creating simplicity in three, two, one.
Brad: Welcome back to another episode of Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. I’m your host, Brad Adatto with my cohost Michael Byrd.
Michael: [00:00:22] Thanks Brad. As a business and healthcare law firm, we meet a lot of interesting people and learn their amazing stories. Our guests today are our friends, Jay and Mara Shorr, founders of Shorr Solutions.
Brad: Yeah, I’m really excited to have Jay and Mara, he dynamic duo join us today. They have a powerful story of how to team up and take on the challenges.
Michael: [00:00:44] Did you just say dynamic duo?
Brad: I did. Yes. Just stick with me for one second. Based on my quick analysis, the dynamic duo can accomplish anything. Look at the mysteries that Scooby Doo and Shaggy were able to solve or how Han Solo and Shabaka took on the empire. [00:01:00] And of course the crime fighting of Batman and Robin.
Michael: [00:01:03] So you’re comparing our guests to a dog and Chewbacca?
Brad: Well, no, not exactly. Not exactly, but the audience will learn that in business and in life being part of a dynamic duo or a great team can help you take on many challenges. And for our audience, what’s so moving about their story in life, sometimes bleep happens. [00:01:26] But what I love about their story and it’s unfortunate because it is a dumpster fire, but what’s so revealing is to who you are as a person, a leader, and a family is how do you respond to the bleep when it does happen.
Michael: That was very realistic. You’ve always wanted to do the voiceover noises.
Brad: [00:01:49] Absolutely.
Michael: Okay. Well, let me transition, Brad and formally introduce the founders of Shorr Solutions so we can hear their [00:02:00] story. First we have Jay Shorr, the father of the dynamic duo. He is a founding partner of Shorr solutions, formerly known as the best Medical Business Solutions. Prior to founding Shorr Solutions, Jay served as the vice president of operations and practice administrator for a leading board-certified dermatologist and cosmetic surgeon. [00:02:23] He’s a graduate of Temple University, certified medical business manager, certified aesthetic consultant, author for National Industry Publications, adjunct faculty at Florida Atlantic University, where he teaches the medical business management course for their school of business. And as we know, Jay, we’ve spoken with him many times over the country. [00:02:47] He’s a prolific speaker and thought leader in the aesthetic space.
Mara, who we also have spoken with all over the country and is a thought leader and great [00:03:00] speaker is also a co-founder of Shorr Solutions, graduate of Central Michigan University with a degree in journalism and public relations, founded the Leon company, which handled marketing and community relations and is now part of the Shorr Solutions. [00:03:18] And she has started a podcast called Shorr Solutions, The Podcast, which Brad you’ve been on and I’m anxiously awaiting for my opportunity to join. Welcome both of you guys.
Mara: Thank you. We are stoked to be here. That’s quite an intro. Jay, did you know you did that many things?
Jay: No, I didn’t. I’m pretty old, you know, but I didn’t know that I’ve lived long enough to be accomplished everything that they shared.
Brad: [00:03:51] Well, again, we are super excited for you guys to join us today. Jay and Mara, our theme this season for Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto is dumpster [00:04:00] fires. And those who are not familiar with the term dumpster fire, it basically means a complete mismanaged situation, which results in a disaster. And unfortunately you have your own dumpster fire story. [00:04:12] so we’d love for you to share your dumpster fire story with our audience.
Mara: Yeah. I was going to say, Jay, do you want to kick off?
Jay: I do want to make a disclaimer before we start. I will refer many times to my practice, but the disclaimer that I want to make is that I am not currently and have never been a physician [00:04:38] and I don’t say that as a joke. I say that as a disclaimer, because many times I’ll refer in the state of Florida you can be a partner in a medical practice without being a physician. Many times I have spoken with medical terminology and people think I’m a doctor. You know, but I really want that to be known right from the very, very beginning.
[00:05:00] Secondly, is that Mara and I are equal 50, 50 partners in Shorr Solutions. And we’ll get into that. It didn’t start out that way, but that’s the way it is and has been for several, several years. The part of my story that I’ve gone on a campaign for many, many years and speak it’s called preparing for the unexpected [00:05:23] in your medical practice. And right now, today, they’re talking about pandemics, but I have a story of my own. I was trolling along for many, many years. I retired from corporate America as a corporate director of safety, health, security, fraud, and embezzlement for a major fortune 500 company.
[00:05:43] And when I retired, I had gone in to help my wife in her medical practice. She was a leading a board certified dermatologist. We had a cosmetic and plastic surgery in-house ORs here at three locations here in South Florida. [00:06:00] And in November of 2011 the medical director was diagnosed with stage four cancer.
[00:06:09] And in June of 2012 lost her short, hard fought battle of only seven months, November to June. And the reason it was so near and dear to me is that medical director was my wife. And the dumpster fire was, we were a multi-million dollar gross revenue, multi-location, multimillion dollar net profit. [00:06:39] And I mean, profit, not just gross, but what we could take home. But the dumpster fire is that Jay was ill prepared for what he was about to face. Because it can’t happen to me. It would be the old story. Michael and Brad, did you hear what happened to [00:07:00] so-and-so? Did you hear what happened?
[00:07:02] Oh my goodness. What a shame that is, you know, I hope they were protected. I hope they had an irrevocable life insurance trust. I hope they had a trust. I hope they had powers of attorney. I hope they had good legal agreements, you know, partnership agreements. And quite frankly, I was ill prepared. For all of it, because it couldn’t happen to me.
[00:07:23] We were moseying along. We had a retirement plan in place, but it just didn’t include the parts and were thoughts. So, no, I wasn’t smart enough to call ByrdAdatto and say hey, put this in place for me because when the end and the inevitable will happen. The reason I wasn’t prepared is in those eight months, I was more involved in, she was given a 5% chance of survival. [00:07:49] So if there’s a 5% chance of survival, I’m a very positive person, the power of positive thinking. I’m going to do everything I can to be that [00:08:00] 5%, knowing that you’re going into a burning building, but why not? If there’s 5%, why can’t I get it? And that’s what I fought for thereby leaving the practice in somewhat of a disarray in other people’s hands we’re traveling around the country.
[00:08:15] We were in and out of Houston every other week to MD Anderson. And I was not prepared for what I was about the face shock, anger, denial. How do you face all the stages that you’re about to encumber without believing? Because it was asymptomatic. And when it hit, it was already in stage four. Now I had a side hustle and we’re going to get into that at the end.
[00:08:45] My side hustle was the best medical business solutions, which is hence our former name, which still is our corporate name. And my goal was that when we were going to retire, my late wife and I, we’d buy a [00:09:00] Winnebago. And I say that as a joke, when we travel around the country and we’d help medical practices, she would have worked with the doctors and I would work with the management team and we would have a little side hustle consulting whenever we wanted. [00:09:11] I then became very well known in this industry because I wrote the business plan, for a certified aesthetic consultant for the aesthetic show and Mara and I wrote one of the business programs for A4M. That was going to be my exit strategy, but I never realized it. My wife became part of faculties. [00:09:33] We traveled around together. I was still running the medical practice and after she passed, I took a year off. Now in that interim Mara had her own company, the Leon Company, and she had her own client base of which I was two of her clients. The medical practice she was doing marketing for and helping us. [00:09:55] And she was also doing marketing for our side hustle, which was [00:10:00] my late wife and I Mara not included. She was a consultant if you will. Then when my wife passed or during that time, Mara was traveling to South Florida. She’s in central Florida. Mara was traveling to South Florida, basically every week for three and four days. [00:10:20] And I make a joke about it now. It wasn’t funny then, but before I went to the hospital every day before I went to hospice in the end, Mara was there to hug me and wipe my tears by the Keurig coffee pot you know, and then her husband would come in on weekends. All right. And till finally it just ended.
[00:10:42] Now I took good amount of time off and Mara said, but dad, you’ve got a good thing here. You’re really too young to retire. And I lost my mojo, to be honest with you. I didn’t want to go back. I couldn’t sell [00:11:00] the practice because I’m not a doctor. All right. So it’s with an MDPA and I couldn’t, the corporate structure was an MDPA, but it was a Sub S and there were, we had other businesses that I was able to be owner of, you know, the assets and the real property. [00:11:18] We won’t get into all of that. Hence the vultures came.
Mara: And in that, Jay just like you said, and so for anybody that’s listening, I always refer to my dad by his first name in a business setting. If it’s just the two of us, or if we’re in a family setting, of course, he’s dad. [00:11:41] So everybody hears me call him Jay. But you know, Jay, in that time it was such a really weird transitional time for our family and for the businesses. So just like you said, the medical practice closed its stores effective [00:12:00] immediately. So because of the structure.
Jay: But here was the thing, we had negotiated and I’m not going to mention the doctor’s name. [00:12:09] We had negotiated a sale with one of the larger plastic surgical practices here in South Florida, and it was a negotiated sale. We had all the terms and conditions. He had his consultants and very well-known consultants in his industry. I won’t mention that name either very well-respected consultant or we had a deal.
[00:12:30] I would then become a 49% partner. This was before Mara and they would become a 51% partner. We would be a Southern division of their already existing practice. And then when my wife went into hospice, she was basically ruled mentally incompetent to be able to sign an agreement and it all blew up and now it all goes into that ugly seven letter word called probate. [00:12:57] And that is a [00:13:00] nightmare in and of itself, which I was ill prepared to face because I didn’t know anything about it. I knew what it meant and what the word meant. I heard other people had gone through it but it can’t happen to me. And man was I so unprepared.
Fast-forward, I had three or four clients in my side hustle business that I would go and I would help them with. [00:13:20] And I just decided that I didn’t know what I wanted to do. Hence, the vultures came in and the vultures meaning they’ll buy the business. I ended up having it done under an asset purchase agreement because they didn’t want to buy the stock sale because now they’re skeletons in the closet because of creditors.
Mara: you’re talking about the practice, not the consulting, right?
Jay: [00:13:44] Right. They wanted to pay me pennies on the dollar of capital equipment, which is what Mara and I do now and we negotiate stuff, but you’re never going to get what you think its worth because I was doing millions of dollars. You can’t sell it for that because now in the last eight months, you’re not making them, you’re bringing in locum tenens [00:14:00] and you’re just trying to survive.
[00:14:02] Fast forward. I ended up selling it as an asset purchase agreement. I sold it with the real estate. I owned the real estate one corporation. I sold the real estate. I sold the assets. I stopped the bleeding is basically what I did cause I was bleeding. The cash burn rate was terrible, but I broke even. And I’m okay with breaking [00:14:22] even. All I did was recover what I had lost over those years, then Mara said, but dad, why don’t you continue this? You let me know when you’re ready.
And in those next several months after her passing, honestly, people don’t believe this. I got tired of fishing and golfing three and four days a week. [00:14:43] It was great. And for several months, but I really got tired of it because I felt that I was becoming depressed. I wasn’t able to do what I thought I was set out to do. And that’s helping people, whether it’s in medicine or whether it’s in [00:15:00] business. Mara said, when you’re ready, you let me know. And she started putting the word out to conferences and it became one conference to arithmetically progressed four, eight, twelve. [00:15:10] We started writing and I said, Mara, why don’t you come and join me? But I can’t afford to pay you anything. We’re very small, but I’ll give you 10% of the business. We started to grow. Mara, I’ll give you a little bit of money. Stick with me. I’ll give you 25% of the business and a couple of hundred dollars a week.
[00:15:30] I knew she could make a lot more money on her own, but she was doing it for dad. Then we started to grow and I wanted to put more in and get a website and everything go in. And I said, Mara, you know, stick with me. I can’t afford to pay you much, but I’ll tell you what, let’s go to a lawyer. Let’s draw up a partnership agreement, 50 50, the Sub S, you get 50% of the losses. [00:15:57] You get 50% of the gains, but now we’re [00:16:00] starting to make money. And then here you go, Mara now you can start making money. And then we’re drawing equal money. And that began the journey of Shorr Solutions to where we are today.
Michael: Wow.
Brad: Yeah. And Jay, real quick, what did you have in place? What kind of documents were even in existence? [00:16:20] Was there just a company agreement or bylaws and that just never really had anything else that was written out? Those to be like a will. What, what was in place at all?
Mara: For the medical practice?
Brad: Yeah. Well for anything.
Jay: Yeah. Well, my late wife and I, she had a power of attorney, which was me as a healthcare surrogate. [00:16:42] I was not the trustee of her estate, which was a mistake. I was given very poor advice and I don’t want to get into that because there was a pending lawsuit with, [00:17:00] the estate attorney coming after me because I wrote an article on preparing for the unexpected and I wrote what they felt was disparaging comments, which I later retracted. [00:17:12] We negotiated and settled it out of court. They would not have prevailed anyway, but it was a matter of how far did I want to take it? Sometimes the biggest gain is the minimal loss, right? We had IRAs and because legally, I was not an owner of the business, but yet I really was a partner. [00:17:38] Because when the end of the day I had a salary and we brought home these millions of dollars to the house, it all went into one account. But because it was an MDPA, I was not a legal partner by the secretary of state.
Now the internal revenue said I am because as a sub S, all the money that came in when we filed a joint return. [00:18:00] Now I will warn everybody that when you do that, you make sure, and I guide clients every day. [00:18:11] To make sure that you have life insurance trust. You have the irritant place, you do the crummy letter and that’s for a different lecture altogether that on your simple or your IRA or your 401s that you make sure that you are named and nothing can be changed. All right, because then the lawyers are going to fight it out between them. [00:18:34] Also, you make sure that you have in place in writing that if you have filed joint returns throughout the marriage, that an attorney cannot step in the shoes, even though they can, and then file a married file single for the year of the [00:19:00] death. And here’s why.
In our particular case, we paid a lot of money, extra in federal wage, federal withholding taxes. [00:19:12] So that since we were profitable, depending upon the section 179 that we took from the equipment, when it was profitable in the K1 or the 10, 11, 20 S came out as very profitable situation, we would get money back because we paid a boatload of money in additionally, several five, $6,000 per pay.
[00:19:36] But the year of her death, the lawyer filed an extension, and then the extension is joint, but then filed married, single, and I did not get the benefit of the return. And I’m telling you it was a boatload of money. All right. I’m not disparaging [00:20:00] anybody. I’m just giving a fact of what to look out for.
[00:20:04] But in my article, I had made some comments about a personal opinion of an adjective of specific types of attorneys and accountants and they felt that it was disparaging them. And I said, no, it was just a generic comment. And their feeling was, but if anybody looks us up they’ll know who the attorney was that represented. [00:20:28] And I said, man, you’re really going out on the stretch.
Mara: Which is actually a good example of why you always need to be careful of what you’re putting out there about what, when, and whether it is that later on, something can be found online, whether it’s that something can later on be founded print. [00:20:44] So that’s where it’s, I tend to err much more on the side of caution and tend to tend to hold back more information than putting out for that reason when it comes to the opinion.
Jay: And what happened is they ended up deposing [00:21:00] me and they ended up having an interrogatory and they went and deposed to try to get the files from the computer of the publisher, where my article was to see what additional potential disparaging comments were made that may have been in the files of the computer.
[00:21:22] Hence, I have to share with you I ended up getting suspended from one of the conferences for that year, because they didn’t want any part of the legal entanglement. Because everything was later adjudicated, I was then put back on the faculty again, but I have to tell you it’s, it’s a nightmare of not knowing what ahead of me.
Brad: [00:21:52] Yeah. Well, it sounds like there was a massive ripple effect of your dumpster fire that didn’t end. Unfortunately, the passing your wife, but [00:22:00] maybe we can move on to some good parts of the story.
Michael: Yeah. And it’s so powerful. I’m so grateful that you shared because not all bad things have this redemption story at the end and, and as it relates to the practice, it didn’t. [00:22:20] What you got out of that were some amazing life lessons, which I’m sure are instrumental in the advice that you guys give now. Mara, I’d love to hear you just talk a little bit about Shorr Solutions and what you guys are doing and how you’re using those experiences to help others.
Mara: Yes, absolutely. [00:22:41] So the ripple effect was absolutely tremendous and as far as how we really took the dumpster fire, I think there’s no way around it. It was a dumpster fire. And so how we took that and it continued, so basically picking up from Jay’s narrative [00:23:00] and where Jay left off is that while Jay took the time to grieve, I on the other side, connected with conferences. [00:23:09] Look as any of us that have ever spoken and participated in the conference circuit. Now at Shorr Solutions, Jay and myself, we are typically in a nun, you know, a non COVID pandemic year. We would be at maybe 20 plus different conferences. And you know, that you need to plan for those months, if not, almost a year ahead of time.
[00:23:30] So while Jay was very deep in grief, as makes perfect sense to be, unfortunately I went to conferences and submitted speaking topics for conferences that weren’t going to take place for another year. Planned so that in such Jay would you be comfortable writing an article that is due in one month. [00:23:53] And he said, look, I think over the next month I can write an article. And it was pretty much [00:24:00] just to get the name out there now, as Jay said, and as you guys mentioned, the name used to be the best medical business solutions. The joke between Jay and I has become, because we are now Shorr Solutions [00:24:11] is that Jay names, the best medical business solutions because of the length of that name and every name or title he has chosen for anybody in our company. We have since banned Jay from naming things, from a branding perspective it just does it work. Even our clients didn’t know our full name, so we shortened it up short, sweet, Shorr Solutions.
[00:24:34] That’s who we are. That’s what we provide.
Jay: Mara, let me just share the joke. Mara says dad, they don’t even write the name on the check. Right. I said, but Mara, the bank cashes it. So who cares?
Mara: And I said, that’s the difference between the finance department and the marketing department. And at that point, when we started our company we would joke about departments, Jay and I worked two [00:25:00] people. [00:25:00] We were two people that worked from home, you know, in our sweatpants. And sometimes didn’t even leave the house to get the mail. Like this was our thriving metropolis or thriving company.
So we, over the years now, we work exclusively with the cosmetic aesthetic industry and practices that have an elective component to them. [00:25:20] That is just our jam. That’s what we know. That’s what we love. That was the practice then. And that’s really where we focus all of our attention, keeping up with industry knowledge, connections, et cetera. And so we have gone from a two person, maybe two or three clients, maybe two different conference organization to having team members.
[00:25:45] Right now all of our team members are located here in Florida, but there we have team members in central Florida team members in South Florida, and our clients are across the country. We have conferences, like I said, typically it could be an average of about 20 different [00:26:00] conferences. I know that [00:26:01] there are at a non COVID year times where Jay and I spend far more weeks and weekends together than we do with our spouses. I think Brad and Michael, there’s times where we spend more weekends in a row with you guys than we do with our spouses. Plus we normally go and we’ll participate in all sorts of things this year.
[00:26:23] Obviously, you know, over the past 12 months, we’ve shifted to podcasts and webinars and virtual conferences, and there’s heck of a lot of zoom going on in our world, but we really break it down where helping clients through their transitions and whether they’re transitioning their finances, they need to know how to save more money, how to negotiate, how to open up their practices, how to close their practices and create that exit strategy. [00:26:52] How to make sure that they’re more profitable, that they’re bringing in more patients, et cetera. So we really have a [00:27:00] tight focus on helping practices on the business side and having been in practices for as long as we were both Jay being a partner in a practice we had gone on and served as a partner for some time for the practice that purchased my late stepmother’s practice.[00:27:19] And so we have that in-office experience.
We are so incredibly grateful that we get to help our clients the way that we do now and bring all of that knowledge so that we’re look, we’re a small business helping small businesses, and that’s what we love to do now more than ever.
Michael: That’s amazing.[00:27:39] And we’re so glad you joined us today, and we’ve obviously had the privilege of working by your side with mutual clients and of course speaking together and you guys are awesome and I’m just grateful for you jumping on to the Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto today, and sharing such a personal story. [00:27:59] We’re going [00:28:00] to now say goodbye and go into a commercial and on the other side, Brad and I will share a few tidbits from a legal perspective. And so thank you guys.
Mara: Thank you.
Jay: Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
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Brad: Welcome back to Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. I’m your host Brad Adatto with my co-host, Michael Byrd. Michael, we just heard unfortunately, a dumpster fire from our good friends, [00:29:00] Jay and Mara Shorr. But really what happened when you weren’t prepared for when bad things happen to good people and you know, what are some of the observations from a legal perspective that you took away?
Michael: [00:29:11] Well, this isn’t a legal perspective, but I was a little surprised at the beginning when he made a point to distinguish that he is not a doctor because you and I spend so much time telling people that we’re practically doctors because our parents, or our dads are doctors, and we speak to doctors.[00:29:30] And so, you know, I didn’t want to derail the podcast and ask him why he was taking the opposite approach as us. Maybe he’s just being a little bit more forthright and maybe we’re just dreamers.
So the way we talk about the planning and what is it that you can do with your practice to deal with the unexpected, It’s a [00:30:00] word we call or phrase, we call foresee planning and you hear it in the legal industry. [00:30:05] They’ll use the word, buy-sell planning, transition planning, but really what you’re dealing with is how are you, if you are co-owners with your spouse or with someone else, how do you deal with things that are out of your control or when things go wrong? And so we found that agreements among partners, whether they end in death or just a normal business divorce really come down to four big areas.
[00:30:39] And the first of the C’s is costs like how much are you paying to get, and what are you getting in return for that? And of course at the end, how much are you going to get paid to sell it? And what’s the structure of that going to look like? What is compensation going to look like while you’re [00:31:00] partners together or what happens when there’s a breakup? [00:31:04] Was there some trailing, overhead obligation that the leaving partner has to pay or is there disability insurance or life insurance when you have a death like we had in today’s story, how are decisions going to be made both during the relationship and when the unexpected happens, who’s going to be put in power to make those decisions.
[00:31:31] You heard Jay share how that really caused some major issues. And then the final thing is a more broad kind of dealing with the other contingencies, which are for those that are in the healthy phase where you don’t think it’s going to happen to you, you reach agreements to say, okay, this is how the mechanics of what’s going to happen [00:31:58] If [00:32:00] there is something that happens.
Brad: Yeah. And we always talk about the four C’s, but sometimes we often throw in the fifth C here, which is communications. And in this case, you know that he was part of it, part of this team with his wife. And now how has he used to surround himself with being the dynamic duo having his daughter join them. Him in Shorr Solutions, but I think the other piece is, and Jay talked about this is surrounding yourself with key members on your professional team who actually understand your business. [00:32:31] That could be the attorneys or CPAs or consultants or financial planners, whoever they are, they all need to understand what you’re up to. And, you know, we talked about this in season one about how hard is it to run a business in general about don’t be a lone wolf. This is a perfect example of who knows maybe the CPA had a good plan and the attorney had a good plan, but they never spoke to each other.
[00:32:52] So all those are very important aspects about running your business, that your entire team needs to be a part of it. And going back to us, not being doctors, but [00:33:00] from a clinical perspective, they always talk about you going to see your doctor for your annual checkup. That’s something that a lot of our clients like to do is at least have an annual checkup with your attorneys and find out what’s going on.
[00:33:10] Make sure their CPA knows what’s going on because when they’re not communicating with each other, that becomes a problem. And I think the final thing I’ll have with the audience is, this is a perfect example of you hear a story you’re like, well, that can never happen to me. This is your time to conduct your own internal risk and really try to determine, Hey [00:33:28] If it did happen to me, what do I have in place? What documents do I have in place? What are the things I’ve done to protect myself and my family? Because a lot of you have worked really, really hard to build up your business to where it is. And, and it’s hard to think about those moments in time, the what ifs the contingencies when something bad happens to good people.
Michael: [00:33:46] Yeah. I mean, we’ve had a husband and wife, wife survived death in 2020, and we’re still working through it and probate courts involved it’s strikingly [00:34:00] similar to Jay’s story and they had very little in place. And so, you know, when it happens, it’s a real challenge to work through it.
Brad: [00:34:11] Please join us for next week where we’ll talk about a preventable death to your practice. We’ll drop that on January 27th. Thanks again for joining us today. And remember, if you liked this episode, please subscribe. Make sure to give us a five star rating and share with your friends. You can also sign up for the ByrdAdatto newsletter by going to our website www.byrdadatto.com.
Outro: [00:34:33] ByrdAdatto is providing this podcast as a public service. This podcast is for educational purposes only. This podcast does not constitute legal advice, nor does it establish an attorney, client relationship. Reference to any specific product or entity does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation by ByrdAdatto.
[00:34:50] The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. Please consult with an attorney on your legal issues. [00:35:00]
